Tax Report on Cash Basis


#21

I mean the period of declaration IRL


(udono) #22

Some years ago we did some experiments with taxes applied on payments. Just a short summary: A company can be marked as cash based for a fiscal year. In cash based fiscal years, invoice taxes are collected in tax accounts for undue taxes. On payment the undue taxes where moved to due taxes account. The tax declaration is based on due taxes, only. It is always possible to take a look to the undue accounts for the taxes to expect. You can change the tax method for each fiscal year.


(Cédric Krier) #23

The problem with such design is to define what you call “on payment”. In the basics of accounting this concept doesn’t exist. In Tryton we have used the reconciliation to simulate this but reconciliation can be undone and it doesn’t support partial payment. That’s why my proposal is based on the period closing for me it is the only way to fully support this requirement.


(Agustín Cruz) #24

I’m going to add another complication to the tax report on cash basis as you are proposing @ced, on México we need to report tax for advance payments from customers or to suppliers for example if March 31 I got a payment from customer I must pay VAT from that payment on March even I generate the invoice on April 1st.


(Cédric Krier) #25

For me, such advance payments are managed by account_deposit so we have already an invoice.
And also we have:

which also concern invoices from the next period but you have to post it.


(Richard PALO) #26

In France, advance payments must always be replied with an acquitted invoice so it is somewhat a similar case.

To revive this topic a bit, cash basis is absolutely fundamental in France as, frankly, almost
every company that provides “services” uses it and it is by default as one must specifically
opt to use accrual with a formal declaration to the fiscal authorities.

If a supplier has opted for accrual-basis for services, he must add a specific clause to his invoices mentioning that fact.

NB: and yes, an invoice can actually have mixed taxes, accrual for the goods and cash for services.

What castaf@ mentioned in using 4458 is an age old means to easily support both mixed and pure case basis. I believe this method is used in many many companies.

Luckily, the tax plan already separates sales VAT by goods and services so it is well underway and can easily deal with these two cases, worst case adding the option 'tax accrual-basis for services ’ to the party accounting tab might help out here for the fringe cases.

Here I’d like to interject a problem I’m encountering with the tax codes that probably could/should be considered at the same time.

The use case with construction subcontractors in France where the prime contractor is responsible for liquidating taxes on behalf of his subcontractors, even if they are paid directly by the client.

Here, the subcontractor invoices the prime contractor without VAT (and mentioning ‘autoliquidation’)

The tax declaration for the subcontractor is somewhat easy, when paid, he indicates his invoice amount base as ‘other non taxable operations’.

The prime contractor will, when the subcontractor is paid, declare the subcontractors invoice amount base as ‘other taxable operations’, and will proceed add the invoices tax base to the appropriate VAT rate along with the rest of his proper invoices that are VAT exigible. He will also add the subcontractors invoice VAT amount to his VAT deductions for goods and services paid.
NB: worthwhile to mention that the VAT rate may different for the prime contractor’s client invoice then for the subcontractor’s invoice (e.g. certain renovation projects benefit a reduced VAT rate)

So far so good, but now the wrench thrown in to the mechanism.

Imagine there was an error in the subcontractor’s invoice and a credit note(or correction invoice) is issued to correct this.

VAT declarations in France disallow corrections in the VAT bases, so these corrections must be applied to a special line 21 ‘other deductible VAT (including collected VAT regularisations)’

  • credit note received in same period with payment corrected
    In this case the bases can be corrected directly as nothing was declared ‘yet’

  • credit note received in a subsequent period after payment/VAT declaration
    Then the bases cannot be corrected directly and must wait for regularisation of the payment either by compensation with a following invoice (if appropriate, such as with progress invoicing on a project) or by reimbursement.
    The former can potentially be regularised in the VAT declaration via the bases, but the latter specifically means line 21 needs to receive the amount of the VAT to regularise following reimbursement.
    The worst case, the subcontractor doesn’t repay or goes bankrupt, then it’s treated similarly.
    (BTW this may also apply to unpaid clients invoices not only autoliquidated

Finally, the subcontractors invoice VAT amount needs to be subtracted from the VAT deductions for goods and services paid.

Perhaps it would be better to allow a company to disable tax code moves at least until cash-basis has support as it’s providing completely distorted data at the moment.


(Cédric Krier) #27

So the configuration should be at the tax level.


(Cédric Krier) #28

I think it will be simpler to create the tax lines any way but not linked to any period. And on closing period, we duplicate all the tax lines without period to add the period and change the amount by the invoice paid ratio.


(Richard PALO) #29

Not sure how you intend to manage this, but in France for example, what castaf said (with respect to 4458xx TVA à régulariser ou en attente) is used as it simplifies much …
not to mention that when the certified accountant comes to control taxes, he or she needs something tangible to ‘contrôle’.

How do you suggest auditing when using these ‘tax lines’?


(Cédric Krier) #30

I do not understand the question.


(Cédric Krier) #31

I start working on the implementation: https://bugs.tryton.org/issue7139


(Cédric Krier) #32

Indeed I will not be too complicated to create an extra move from the tax account (waiting) to another account based on the tax line updates.


(Cédric Krier) #33

When implementing, I found that it was more efficient to update the tax lines when payments were added to the invoice instead of when closing the period. This is because it is difficult to search for the invoices that have payments updated during the closed period.
So by default the tax ratio the paid invoice is moved to the current period.
I will add a wizard on move line, like the reconciliation, to add a line to an invoice and select the date/period at which this should be registered.


(Cédric Krier) #34

The implementation is ready for testing at https://bugs.tryton.org/issue7139.
It is a little bit different as the initial design as it follows Tax Report on Cash Basis but the main concepts have not changed.


(Cédric Krier) #35

The supplier case has been improved see https://bugs.tryton.org/msg38492
Now supplier invoice can force some tax groups to be on cash basis.