Replace mailing list by discuss


(Sergi Almacellas Abellana) #9

I’ve been using discuss in mailing list mode since we implemented it and I think it’s a good replacement for the mailing list. Once you get used it’s easy to click the reply button to answer the questions.

It also allows to create more categories than mailing lists andmove publications between categories which is not possible with mailing list. This solves a recurrent issue as there is some confusion about tryton@ and tryton-dev@ usage.

I agree with the proposal, but I have some doubts:

Do you plan to create language specific categories? Or use the translation plugin to allow users to post on foreign langauges?

What about to discussions specific to some localizations: shall we create a custom category for this?


(Cédric Krier) #10

No, I do not think we should split again the community with language.
English stays the primary language but thanks to the translation plugin, it stays inclusive to non-English speakers.

My thought about localization is that nothing is too locale to not be discussed generally.
For me, just like the issue about categorize post, localization discussions have the same problem. They are most of the time wrongly categorized as locale while a global solution can be applied with a tiny part locale.
For example, I have seen no problem in this blueprint Spanish VAT listing
And people not interested in one specific topic can just un-track it.


(Sergi Almacellas Abellana) #11

Agree but for newcomers it may be difficult to notice it so probably we should add a notice on the first page

Idem about the notice.

I like to make this the most inclusive possible so we should make a clear statement on the first page.


(Cédric Krier) #12

Already in Welcome to Discourse

I do not follow here. I think this “localization” topic only exists wrongly in the mind of old integrators.
Also I do not see which statement could be made. “You can talk about any localization of Tryton”. Why would we make a special mention about this and not all other topics?


#13

Email is lean, directly delivered, and easy to answer and quote (at least if you are not using one of the dumb/web mailers. You can filter etc. , which allows you to organize your work properly.
Backside is that most mailing lists dont allow attachments, which is an advantage of a forum. EMail discussions cant be closed (as recently here: ‘This thread was closed after 12h, as no more replies were added’)

To participate in a forum you have to visit a website (means you have to be more active) and et around with the forum software. Doing this with a cell phone is mostly a PITA. Doing quotations is a PITA. Adding images can be easy (as long as you dont have to upload it to a 3rd party site and add a link, then it is even more embarrassing.

Dont understand what you want to say

‘Old project’ means that it is successful over many years. Some of these old projects have just reorganized their mailing list and created new ones, in order to match more the users demand. Next to the forums.
So I don’t think age is a valid argument.


(Cédric Krier) #14

For me, all this points are also valid for discourse.

We always allowed attachments on Google groups.

It is not required if you activate the email notification. It is only required to post but for me it is a good thing because it forces people to take time to construct a good answer, properly quote and be notified in real time about other posts.

Have you tried discourse on phone? It is very very good.
But it has also application for popular mobile OS:

I do not know if it is from mobile. But if it is, it should be fixed now https://meta.discourse.org/t/android-copy-paste-menu-covers-quote-reply-button/38261
If it is in general, I do not understand. For me, discourse has the most effective quoting system I have seen.

I do not understand neither. We have always authorized the upload of images on discuss.tryton.org.

The broadcast mailing list like the announce does not involve discussion so discourse is not a better solution. That’s why I propose to keep them (but migrate to our infrastructure) because it is still the best tool.

For now, I see that our users demand is in favor of this replacement.

The age is not an argument, it is a possible explanation on why such project still use mailing list and did not envisaged discourse (which is quite young ~5 years). They have an history. Resistance to change is more and more stronger with time.


#15

It’s a perfect choice! It reads better than a mailinglist, better visual replies etc. You have also one place where everything is. Now you have different maillinglists and this forum, two places where the data lives. It’s better to have one place with one look, a place which don’t enforce you to have a google account.


#16

For me not.

You can start a thread by mail on discourse? I dont think so.
It is more convenient to work on mails offline than in one of these poor online editors (like this one)

As well from a standard PC its a pain…manually adding all the quote and unquote tags, next to the fact that there is no undo (or at least I havent found one)

The project just uses all communication means efficiently. I see no resistance there


(Sebastián Marró) #17

I agree with the proposal and with @pokoli that it solves the confusion about tryton@ and tryton-dev@ usage.

Also i like the idea of taking advantage of all the features of the interface.


(Nicolas Évrard) #18

Well once you’ve sent your email you can not take it back.
At least here you can remove your message using the trash can.

Of course editing in vim is easier sometimes but all in all I find that the editor is not bad at all and allows all kind of formatting not possible in the emails.


#19

Sure, once out, its gone (as always with Email)

You can always send HTML Emails, but do we really want this? At least for me, no.

Regarding EMail-Notification (see Ced’s remark 3 days ago): I have activated it, but I cant answer by mail (noreply@…). Is this a misconfiguration?


(Cédric Krier) #20

This would be easier to read with a proper quote :wink:

No, we want users to answer from the website because we want to have proper quotations, stripped messages, well and simple formatted messages, avoid duplicated answers, validation from discourse, etc.


(udono) #21

I like the general idea replacing groups with discuss, too.

About quoting I find E-Mail is much easier to use.
Especially quoting nested discussions with some participants is tedious for me.
But maybe I’m using it the wrong way?

Is it possible to use discuss with email for accessibility?


(Cédric Krier) #22

Discourse enforces to quote only a person at a time because you can click on the quote to get more context.
This is really the improvements on email quoting no repeat and reader choose the amount showed for the quote.

You can read from email if you activate it on your preferences.
Otherwise the accessibility has been taken in consideration by Discourse developers https://meta.discourse.org/t/accessibility-audit-and-shepherd-for-making-improvements/66620

Finally, I find that most of the critics say that Discourse requires a little bit more work to post a message. I think it is true, Discourse force you in the right way but it is for the benefit of the readers.


(Luciano Rossi) #23

Hi everybody,

I believe that replacing mailing list by discuss would be an improvement on our discussions.
The only thing that disturb me a little bit, is the subject of the email that come from discourse. Could we replace “[Tryton discussion][tag] subject”, just to be [tryton][tag] subject"?


(Cédric Krier) #24

It is the name of the website, I think it will not be good to name it just “tryton”.


(Luciano Rossi) #25

Hi, what I do not like is that the subject of the emails are too long, that’s why I propose to change it.


#26

If you are still looking for arguments - or just want to read what others think - the same discussion was just started here:
https://lists.opensuse.org/opensuse-factory/2018-07/msg00205.html


(udono) #27

I checked the first fifty replies in the discussion, the only new topic for me
was about the offline capabilities of E-Mail:

  • Advanced searching local archive
  • Writing messages

Offline capabilities are needed, when the internet connection is not stable.


(Cédric Krier) #28

I found and changed the configuration to set just [Tryton][tag] subject in the email header.